« Graydon Carter and Tina Brown: How to edit a magazine | Main | Regrettably Rose-Tinted »

June 25, 2007

Comments

Tom Fielding

This is the best analysis of the Labour Party's problems that I have read - much better than all the bleating in the Times last week. Well done.

Complete Dub

Whilst I would agree it is a good analysis there are a couple of points that could be laboured more (if youll excuse the pun)

In answer to the question that is oft asked "why can the Irish Labour Party never capitalise on the left vote in Ireland" the answer is simple. Fianna Fail do capitalise on it. It is often said that FF is a broad church and critical component of that congregation is the working class membership. This membership has been built up from obvious historical factors but also because FF have delivered and continues to do so for this constituencey while the Labour Party have been lecturing us on what should be done for these communities and this is not exclusive to the last election.

In contrast to the broad memberhsip of FF it has been my experience that the memberhsip of the Labour party (particularlly in Dublin) are drawn from much narrower elements of thr social strata. It led a friend of mine to comment recently that he "was not wealthy enough to join the Lab party".

This is not to say there is not a working class memberhsip in the Lab party however there is a lack of understaning (as your writer has somewhat illustrated) between these two diverse memberships and thus the party (not unlike the PD's) do not know what they stand for in the face of not having enough members to stand for everything like FF.

Every ten or fifteen years there is an opportunity to rebalance Irish politics and there are a couple of options, one being as your writer has pointed out, the other being FG actually deciding they stand for something other than being anti FF and assuming the vacant space on the right and seeking to grow their vote there (together wtih the left overs of the PD's). The benefit for Lab would be they could assert their "left" values and be a natural coalition party with FF!

Will Pat be judged to have missed the same opportunity as Dick..... Only time will tell!

John Stephenson

Where does Max McGuinness’s commonplace analysis fall down?

Max, like Ed Brophy before him, does not wish to recognise that Fianna Fail is in effect the Irish Social Democratic Party. It has fulfilled this role since its foundation in 1927, as reflected both in its membership, policies and Governmental programme. I could argue that it has demonstrated over and again that it is one of the most sophisticated and successful Social Democratic parties in Europe, mistakes and setbacks notwithstanding

The founders and drivers of FF were familiar with the Bolshevik and Menshevik choices which dominated the Socialist International at the time. But unlike many other European revolutionaries, FF did not see Men of Property and Men of the Cloth as the enemy. Instead, like other Social Democrats, they alligned with both Capital and Church to tackle poverty and ignorance; and to strengthen our new democracy through social justice.

As British Labour discovered when it swopped the Red Flag for a red business tie, such alliances can be corrupting. The politics of compromise, association and persuasion can also take decades. Democracy is a very slow process, and inefficient - not at all as fast and effective as rule by diktat. But without popular countervailing forces; strong special interests; and institutional checks and balances, Socialism is just a fast track to economic and social collapse

Labour is a failed Socialist Party because FF is a successful Social Democratic one. All Labour has ever really shared with the Christian Democratic Fine Gael is a visceral, distracting and self-destructive loathing of FF, and all its works and pomps. It is easy for junior pundits whose political memory does not stretch much beyond 2002 to ignore the many choices Labour has had in the past 90 years. Thrice it could have defined FF’s ‘socialism’ as its own. Pat Rabbitte's anti-FF stance in 2005/ 07 was a fatal choice in the circumstances.

Labour today have nowhere to go except up their own ageing, ever-tightening, political orifice in Opposition. Their only electoral hope, (and it is a measure of their wrong-headed desperation that they are already talking it up) is an economic and social crisis which leaves everyone worse off and radically disaffected. With all Fianna Fail’ s many faults and failings, it has never been that cynical. Prosperity and social cohesion are still the goal, no matter how elusive and uneven so far.

Even In a situation of social and electoral protest, Labour would have to cope with a flanking, resurgent Sinn Fein and Independent Socialists. So they won’t be without further mistaken choices to make; though one choice that is not available in 21st century Ireland is a Socialist one. By the time the authoritarian demagogue Hugo Chavez has finished with Venezuala, Labour here will be too embarrassed even to mention the word. (Bar, possibly, that silly vain populist Michael D. and his right-on Fan Club.)

Sooner or later the notion that it would be mere "opportunism" for Labour to co-alesce with Fianna Fail will be recognised as a trite idee recu without ideological or practical justification. So it is deeply irritating for old leftist justice and peace FFers like me to read the same old canard repeated without challenge by tyro PolCorrs in a magazine which prides itself on fresh thinking. When it comes to Irish politics, The Dubliner continues to smell stale and taste derivative. Must be that old anti-FF flavouring you still use!

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.


  • Enter your email address for news of exclusive free ticket offers and competitions:

    Delivered by FeedBurner